Author Topic: Cambridge Science Park Station development  (Read 5335 times)

Offline Steves

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Cambridge Science Park Station development
« on: October 23, 2014, 10:08:34 AM »
I have started a new topic as the previous one is some years old.  Please merge if you think it would better.

The local councils have just published a draft consultation document on the development around the new station.  It includes 4 suggested models - increasing levels of development of the site.  All the except the minimum development option see the removal of the Stagecoach depot.  The document also includes some suggested names for the station.

Here is the link to Cambridge News article about it which includes a link to the consultation document. http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/area-Cambridge-s-second-railway-station-look-like/story-23353755-detail/story.html

Steve

Offline AE55DKN

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Re: Cambridge Science Park Station development
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2014, 04:56:05 PM »
There has been talk of moving the depot and building another site. It's a stupid place to have a station, on an already congested area.

They must have ideas on what there going to do, considering there already adjusting the Busway

Offline TCD813

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Re: Cambridge Science Park Station development
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2014, 10:30:57 AM »
I have started a new topic as the previous one is some years old.  Please merge if you think it would better.

The local councils have just published a draft consultation document on the development around the new station.  It includes 4 suggested models - increasing levels of development of the site.  All the except the minimum development option see the removal of the Stagecoach depot.  The document also includes some suggested names for the station.

Here is the link to Cambridge News article about it which includes a link to the consultation document. http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/area-Cambridge-s-second-railway-station-look-like/story-23353755-detail/story.html

Steve

Dunno about anyone else, but the alleged link in the article didn't work for me. (I've found that Cambridge News's html is a bit rubbish.) By examining the page source, I've found the PDF to which they refer.

Here it is: DRAFT CNFE AAP Issues and Options Report.

And I've tested my link!
TCD813? The reg of a Southdown Motor Services, Northern Counties bodied, Leyland Titan PD3/4 FH39/30F (popularly dubbed 'Queen Mary') from the late 50s.
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Offline TCD813

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Re: Cambridge Science Park Station development
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2014, 10:38:54 AM »
[...] It's a stupid place to have a station, on an already congested area. [...]

Why so, Jack?

I can't honestly see where else a station intended to serve north Cambridge, the Science and Innovation parks, A10-linked villages A14-linked villages and A428-linked villages could be sited. There is certainly a need to discourage vehicular traffic from heading to the (Central?) Cambridge station car-park.
TCD813? The reg of a Southdown Motor Services, Northern Counties bodied, Leyland Titan PD3/4 FH39/30F (popularly dubbed 'Queen Mary') from the late 50s.
There's all 'manor' of stuff on my Twitter A/c.

Offline AE55DKN

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Re: Cambridge Science Park Station development
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2014, 07:51:44 PM »
Why so, Jack?

I can't honestly see where else a station intended to serve north Cambridge, the Science and Innovation parks, A10-linked villages A14-linked villages and A428-linked villages could be sited. There is certainly a need to discourage vehicular traffic from heading to the (Central?) Cambridge station car-park.

Milton Road, Chaos.
A14 currently chaos.
Its maybe discouraging traffic from the center, but its just placing it elsewhere?

Offline Palatine One

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Re: Cambridge Science Park Station development
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2014, 08:08:05 PM »
The A14 and Milton Rd are certainly bad enough as it is without encouraging more traffic along them - but I suppose there isn't really anywhere else to put the station and have it link up with the Guided Busway. Debatable how much car traffic the busway link would reduce however.

Perhaps there may be a market for commuter coach services to the station from Cambourne which must be a fair generator of car traffic to both St Neots station and Cambridge main station now, seeing as there is no real public transport link to either...

Offline barryb

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Re: Cambridge Science Park Station development
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2014, 12:35:06 AM »
In theory it should take traffic away from somewhere, but I wonder where.  I suspect people from North of Cambridge that want to take trains to London aren't currently driving into central Cambridge to get the train there.  Huntingdon, Waterbeach and Whittlesford would all be more viable options.

What I would really like to see as the perfect accompaniment to a North Cambridge Station would be a South Cambridge Station in the Addenbrooke's area, though I imagine that short sightedness and fragmentation means it's not happening any time soon.

Offline TCD813

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Re: Cambridge Science Park Station development
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2014, 02:31:21 PM »
[...]
What I would really like to see as the perfect accompaniment to a North Cambridge Station would be a South Cambridge Station in the Addenbrooke's area, though I imagine that short sightedness and fragmentation means it's not happening any time soon.

Only a few short years back, whilst the three councils (Cambridge City, Cambs County and South Cambs) would have liked to push ahead, the TOCs were sniffy and said, in effect, "You can build a station there, but we won't be stopping any of our trains at it."

However, with the continuing planned expansion of the biomedical campus around Addenbrooke's (which will, at long last, include the long-planned-for re-location of the Papworth Hospital) making Addenbrooke's a key detonation and generator of traffic, an Addenbrooke's railway station is now in the pipeline.

How soon? How long is a piece of string?
TCD813? The reg of a Southdown Motor Services, Northern Counties bodied, Leyland Titan PD3/4 FH39/30F (popularly dubbed 'Queen Mary') from the late 50s.
There's all 'manor' of stuff on my Twitter A/c.

Offline TCD813

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Re: Cambridge Science Park Station development
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2014, 02:34:01 PM »
The A14 and Milton Rd are certainly bad enough as it is without encouraging more traffic along them - but I suppose there isn't really anywhere else to put the station and have it link up with the Guided Busway. Debatable how much car traffic the busway link would reduce however.

Perhaps there may be a market for commuter coach services to the station from Cambourne which must be a fair generator of car traffic to both St Neots station and Cambridge main station now, seeing as there is no real public transport link to either...

Well, exactly.

And I don't think that the TOCs would be playing ball (See my comments re an Addenbrooke's station, above.) if they didn't see this as a revenue-generator.
TCD813? The reg of a Southdown Motor Services, Northern Counties bodied, Leyland Titan PD3/4 FH39/30F (popularly dubbed 'Queen Mary') from the late 50s.
There's all 'manor' of stuff on my Twitter A/c.

Offline Steves

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Re: Cambridge Science Park Station development
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2014, 11:39:16 PM »
In addition to the offices etc in the development around the new station and science park generating incoming traffic, there should be outgoing traffic from Histon, Impington, Milton. Northstowe via the busway and parts of north Cambridge.  I think people from St Ives are likely to use Huntingdon as a railhead, likewise Cambourne to St Neots especially if the final section of the A428 is dualled.  If the bus service on the busway to the new station could be kept off public roads, it could be operated with high reliability - as good as a railway branch line - and that would, I think, build traffic.  Even better with some through ticketing.

The current train plan is not spectacular.  There will be two trains an hour to Kings Lynn, Ely and fast to Kings Cross and the hourly service between Cambridge and Norwich.  The Birminghams are not planned to stop in the initial plan and few if any of the trains which currently terminate at Cambridge will come further north.  I don't think the layout is very good for terminating trains there.

The current cost of Addenbrookes station is prohibitive as it requires four tracking from Cambridge and a four platform station otherwise it will reduce capacity on the section between Cambridge and Shepreth Branch Junction.  There is the possibility of the proposed Cambridge - Bedford line providing that capacity.  It has to find a way out of Cambridge to the west somewhere and both the other existing routes are blocked (Busway and Trumpington).  It will be interesting to see the proposed route especially if it is to swing round to serve Cambourne and St Neots "Garden Cities".

Offline barryb

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Re: Cambridge Science Park Station development
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2014, 01:54:12 AM »
The proposed service is not spectacular, but unless *none* of the Liverpool Street trains extend to it I wouldn't find it disappointing.  The fast service to London is probably the prize and it'll be possible to make connections at Ely and Cambridge. If the Birmingham trains stopped at every station they'd be an even more painful service to use than they currently are, and the layout of Cambridge makes it hard for many Cambridge terminators to visit and probably isn't ever going to change.

It is likely to pull passengers from odd places, for example someone from the St Ives area is likely to currently park their car at Huntingdon Station and drive, but may consider changing to parking at St Ives P&R and taking the bus to the new station.  It will also put Northstowe within a remarkably journey time from London.

There are however other problems.  Currently the King's Lynn portion of the fast services arrives at Cambridge very uncomfortably packed, so a better option for the person somewhere between Cambridge and North Cambridge stations who wanted a seat would be to go to Cambridge and get on the other portion of the train.

My main worry as a resident of north Cambridge is that the bus services serving the station might be likely to not be much use.  The obvious thing for Stagecoach to do is to run all or most of the As to it, which will mean that the only useful bus service to the station from the north of Cambridge would be from CRC (the Science Park busway stop is within walking distance and therefore not particularly useful). 

My dream would be a bus from Madingley Park and Ride coming on dedicated roads through the West Cambridge and Darwin Green developments to the Orchard Park and Science Park stretches of the CGB.


Offline Steves

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Re: Cambridge Science Park Station development
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2014, 10:15:29 AM »

There are however other problems.  Currently the King's Lynn portion of the fast services arrives at Cambridge very uncomfortably packed, so a better option for the person somewhere between Cambridge and North Cambridge stations who wanted a seat would be to go to Cambridge and get on the other portion of the train.

My main worry as a resident of north Cambridge is that the bus services serving the station might be likely to not be much use.  The obvious thing for Stagecoach to do is to run all or most of the As to it, which will mean that the only useful bus service to the station from the north of Cambridge would be from CRC (the Science Park busway stop is within walking distance and therefore not particularly useful). 

My dream would be a bus from Madingley Park and Ride coming on dedicated roads through the West Cambridge and Darwin Green developments to the Orchard Park and Science Park stretches of the CGB.


If the new Waterbeach station is built, the issue of the shorter trains serving Science Park should be resolved as the plan is build a new station at Waterbeach which I assume would be 12 coach length so allowing 12 coach trains to run to Ely.  The power upgrade already planned should allow for that.  If Science Park had been designed for it, the detaching of the back units could have moved there from opening as it is the right side of Milton power input.  That put too much cost into the project was it was not done.

Your dream of of an orbital bus service is shared by the County.  It is in one of their strategy documents. Not sure that there is any will to actually implement it though.

I would expect the 2 to extended to the new station.  I think it only goes to the Science Park as it has a convenient layby and roundabout to use as a terminal.  What chance of extending some of the 1s through Arbury?  That would significantly increase the catchment area though not as much as you would wish.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 10:51:42 AM by Steves »

Offline TCD813

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Re: Cambridge Science Park Station development
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2014, 12:08:07 PM »
[...]
I would expect the 2 to extended to the new station.  I think it only goes to the Science Park as it has a convenient layby and roundabout to use as a terminal.  What chance of extending some of the 1s through Arbury?  That would significantly increase the catchment area though not as much as you would wish.

Perhaps splitting the northern end of the citi1 would make sense: alternate buses travelling out via Campkin Road, or via Nothfield Avenue and Kings Hedges Road both terminating at the Science Park station, with alternating return journeys, to balance. If the citi2 also served the station, this change would cover much of the new station's hinterland.

Whilst re-jigged Busway routes will provide excellent travel opportunities for adjacent communities, I think that more creative use of the potential for 'branching' off the busway ought to be considered.

Willingham > Busway > Science Park station > Milton Road > city centre?
Cottenham > Impington > Histon > Busway > Science Park station > Milton Road > city centre?
City centre > Histon Road > Orchard Park, CRC & Science Park Busway > Science Park station?
TCD813? The reg of a Southdown Motor Services, Northern Counties bodied, Leyland Titan PD3/4 FH39/30F (popularly dubbed 'Queen Mary') from the late 50s.
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Offline David Goddard

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Re: Cambridge Science Park Station development
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2014, 11:07:08 PM »
The current cost of Addenbrookes station is prohibitive as it requires four tracking from Cambridge and a four platform station otherwise it will reduce capacity on the section between Cambridge and Shepreth Branch Junction.  There is the possibility of the proposed Cambridge - Bedford line providing that capacity.  It has to find a way out of Cambridge to the west somewhere and both the other existing routes are blocked (Busway and Trumpington).  It will be interesting to see the proposed route especially if it is to swing round to serve Cambourne and St Neots "Garden Cities".
The obvious site for this is just to the North of the bridge which takes the busway over the line, easily served by The Busway and also an easy walk to Long Road College.  My initial thought was whether the bridge was wide enough for four tracks, but I think it is, based on this view:  http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/02/17/56/2175689_a50a924d.jpg.  I don't think that four platforms would be needed, if there are going to be four tracks then then there will only be a need for platforms on the slow lines.

Offline Palatine One

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Re: Cambridge Science Park Station development
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2014, 05:20:12 PM »
Perhaps splitting the northern end of the citi1 would make sense: alternate buses travelling out via Campkin Road, or via Nothfield Avenue and Kings Hedges Road both terminating at the Science Park station, with alternating return journeys, to balance. If the citi2 also served the station, this change would cover much of the new station's hinterland.

Whilst re-jigged Busway routes will provide excellent travel opportunities for adjacent communities, I think that more creative use of the potential for 'branching' off the busway ought to be considered.

Willingham > Busway > Science Park station > Milton Road > city centre?
Cottenham > Impington > Histon > Busway > Science Park station > Milton Road > city centre?
City centre > Histon Road > Orchard Park, CRC & Science Park Busway > Science Park station?


I would say that the southern section could be improved in the same way...

City Centre - Railway Station - Addenbrookes stopping nr Treatment Centre and rear entrance to the concourse on Keith Day Rd, inbound via Puddicombe Way and outbound via Keith Day Road - Busway - Trumpington P&R, then either onwards to Royston following the 26 route or perhaps even Saffron Walden "fast" via the M11 and Duxford village.

Slightly O/T but I believe that CCC haven't realised the potential and only seem concerned about end to end services purely using the Busway!

Offline barryb

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Re: Cambridge Science Park Station development
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2014, 11:25:05 PM »
I would say that the southern section could be improved in the same way...

City Centre - Railway Station - Addenbrookes stopping nr Treatment Centre and rear entrance to the concourse on Keith Day Rd, inbound via Puddicombe Way and outbound via Keith Day Road - Busway - Trumpington P&R, then either onwards to Royston following the 26 route or perhaps even Saffron Walden "fast" via the M11 and Duxford village.

Slightly O/T but I believe that CCC haven't realised the potential and only seem concerned about end to end services purely using the Busway!

Given that passenger numbers say that people have a love of busways that I just can't understand, it does seem tragic that the southern stretch is so underutilised (or alternatively, so underheight).  It is everything a busway should be that the northern busway isn't.  It would be perfect for speeding Haverhill and Royston passengers out of Cambridge.  And that it isn't (and can't) be used by meaningful park and ride services just seems criminal. 

Given the growth on the northern busway, I am certain it would be worth an operator's while taking the hit and running for frequent 13 / 26 / blue / green services using single deck vehicles.

Offline Martin

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Re: Cambridge Science Park Station development
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2014, 03:18:04 PM »
Given that passenger numbers say that people have a love of busways that I just can't understand, it does seem tragic that the southern stretch is so underutilised (or alternatively, so underheight).  It is everything a busway should be that the northern busway isn't.  It would be perfect for speeding Haverhill and Royston passengers out of Cambridge.  And that it isn't (and can't) be used by meaningful park and ride services just seems criminal. 

Given the growth on the northern busway, I am certain it would be worth an operator's while taking the hit and running for frequent 13 / 26 / blue / green services using single deck vehicles.
Doesn't the southern section of the busway have a pinch point where it is single track shared in both directions? This would presumably cause an issue for any frequent services.

Offline AE55DKN

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Re: Cambridge Science Park Station development
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2014, 05:36:24 PM »
Doesn't the southern section of the busway have a pinch point where it is single track shared in both directions? This would presumably cause an issue for any frequent services.

thought only by the station

Offline Palatine One

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Re: Cambridge Science Park Station development
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2014, 05:50:22 PM »
The only single track point on the Southern section is a short stretch along the bit between Addenbrookes and Trumpington P&R, simply to clear the bridge under Hauxton Road.

Offline TCD813

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Re: Cambridge Science Park Station development
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2014, 05:53:30 PM »
Doesn't the southern section of the busway have a pinch point where it is single track shared in both directions? This would presumably cause an issue for any frequent services.

Well, yes, it does, but it's an extremely short section (around 700 metres) in Trumpington cutting to take the busway under Shelford Road and Hauxton Road bridges.

This should take a maximum of about a minute-and-a-half each way. (I based my calculations, conservatively, on a speed of 20 mph.) I'd say that this makes a five minute headway the best achievable on this section.

When the new housing is developed, on the former brownfield site, at Hauxton, the hourly 26 (M-Sat only) will not be adequate. That may imply extending the A to Hauxton, or be a time to split the services in some way.

All A services doing a hospital loop and return northwards? With Hauxton services alternating between serving Addenbrooke's and running direct to the railway station and onwards? (To where?)

Other Forum members' suggestions welcome!
TCD813? The reg of a Southdown Motor Services, Northern Counties bodied, Leyland Titan PD3/4 FH39/30F (popularly dubbed 'Queen Mary') from the late 50s.
There's all 'manor' of stuff on my Twitter A/c.