Author Topic: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses  (Read 8875 times)

Offline Jamie V (AO02RBX)

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taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« on: February 03, 2009, 06:05:33 PM »
Well today my bike was under repair in Northampton so i thought i would start getting some more buses pictures of Various Operators in Northampton. The day went past couple of drivers given the good old wave but no one gave any fingers.

As the day went past the snow started melting and in my o pion the ice must of defrosted off the union rep mouth at Stagecoach Northampton.

I was approached my security @ first and got told you cant take pictures in the bus station. I was like fair enough and i was about to get on with my day then the union rep for SIN spoke to me saying 'you cant take picture's of the buses because they are going into the driver personal space and that it is against to law.' He also there for went on how i should apparently ask driver's if can take pictures whilst they drive.

I nearly could of swing for him but i got on with my day but didn't carry on picture's to be quite honest this has disgusted me and i personally don't know if i shall carry on with taking picture's of buses, trains etc.......

I mean i said i got right's to take picture's. And also explained i know now that i am not allowed on the bus station with out permission first......

I mean honestly i want to know how do you ask the driver if you can take a picture of them if you are at the side of the road?!

Maybe someone could explain if there is somewhat correct or wrong with the above??


ta very much rant over

Offline Martin

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2009, 06:50:58 PM »
This issue cropped up with Norwich awhile back and Suzy was sent this document explaining photographer's rights

Offline Jamie V (AO02RBX)

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2009, 06:54:16 PM »
Hi Martin,
they said they don't give a dam about Photographer's rights...... and that basically im completely invading drivers personal space  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

Offline David Goddard

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2009, 06:56:31 PM »
I have found the following from the NPIA (National Policing Improvement Agency) website.  It is an extract from a document headed "Stop and Search In Relation to Terrorism"
http://www.npia.police.uk/en/docs/Stop_and_Search_in_Relation_to_Terrorism_-_2008.pdf

The Terrorism Act 2000 does not prohibit people from taking photographs or digital
images in an area where an authority under section 44 is in place. Officers should not
prevent people taking photographs unless they are in an area where photography is
prevented by other legislation.

Adam Dowling

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2009, 06:58:32 PM »
I have found the following from the NPIA (National Policing Improvement Agency) website.  It is an extract from a document headed "Stop and Search In Relation to Terrorism"
http://www.npia.police.uk/en/docs/Stop_and_Search_in_Relation_to_Terrorism_-_2008.pdf

The Terrorism Act 2000 does not prohibit people from taking photographs or digital
images in an area where an authority under section 44 is in place. Officers should not
prevent people taking photographs unless they are in an area where photography is
prevented by other legislation.

Also added to that the person who confronted Jamie wasn't a police officer but Stagecoaches Union Rep, who doesn't have any legal power over any member of the public.

Maybe someone should fire off a email to Northampton council about it, after all we got a clear picture from Norwich (saying that they had no problem with photographers) after one or two people were told to clear off.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2009, 07:00:23 PM by Adam D »

Offline Andy

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2009, 07:28:56 PM »
I have experienced the same kind of thing Jamie, i was even stopped by police at Victoria Bus Station under the Anti Terrorism Act, they soon let me go back my photographing after a quick search, chat and look through my camera. You should'nt let your experience put you off of photograping buses, the stagecoach union rep does not know what he is talking about and was out of order treating you how he did.

Offline Nat2

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2009, 08:35:29 PM »
It should be noted that the driver that spoke to you is not a Stagecoach Union rep, but would be a Unite (T&G) or RMT, or whatever Union representative.
It is always worth dropping an e-mail to the local Stagecoach management at Northampton, providing details of the incident.
However, I would recommend running a spelling and grammar check before sending it to them as, rightly or wrongly, poorly written "complaints" will never have the same effect as a well written one!

Offline Dale

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2009, 08:45:48 PM »
There are a number of simple facts for photographers to bear in mind:-

You are entitled to take photographs of virtually anything as long as you are in a public space [i.e any road, pavement should always be OK]. (There *may* be issues arising if you take close-up photos of individual people in the street but that doesn't affect most of us).

You may be restricted from taking photographs on private property. This will include most bus stations and depots. Ideally there should be something in writing to this effect but as you are on private property anyway there's little point in arguing.

Police Officers may [nowadays] use powers introduced in recent years (theoretically to help counter terrorism) whereby they can stop you and ask what you are doing. If they stop and search you they are obliged to issue form 5090 [I've only got one so far!]. They cannot insist that you delete any images, nor can they confiscate any equipment - although they can, of course, ask you to assist them in their enquiries down at the police station............

Needless to say, a Union Rep has no powers whatsoever.

Photographs taken of buses seem to annoy a few drivers who try to insist that you are not entitled to take 'their' photo without their permision. This is rubbish but it's best handled diplomatically rather than aggressively. There is a Stagecoach driver at Kettering on the Solos who spouts this rubbish.

Dale



Adam Dowling

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2009, 09:09:23 PM »
Photographs taken of buses seem to annoy a few drivers who try to insist that you are not entitled to take 'their' photo without their permision. This is rubbish but it's best handled diplomatically rather than aggressively. There is a Stagecoach driver at Kettering on the Solos who spouts this rubbish.
Best way to deal with this is either leave the area in question for a short while, or if they are in your face just calmly state that you are not interested in the driver, but only in the vehicle.

Offline Jamie V (AO02RBX)

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2009, 09:13:57 PM »
Thanks for all the words, i may do a email to Stagecoach Northampton becuase this has really got me down i mean i just feel what is the world comming to.

Any updates on the matter i shall inform you as and when as it stands at the minute i may go back out phorographing to be honest i really dont know. :(

Adam Dowling

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2009, 09:18:44 PM »
.................i may go back out phorographing to be honest i really dont know. :(
Don't let it put you off mate. I was slightly put off when something similar (although it was resolved quickly) happened to me a few months back. So don't let it get you down, sometimes you realise that certain spots are better for photography than you'd think. Fortunately we don't have much of a problem in Cambridge as the bus station itself is terrible for photographic opportunities and the best place is on the pavement.

Offline hull man

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2009, 09:32:33 PM »
You know you will, your just having a downer,

If you experience any problems just ask for the drivers name, then email stagecoach with a complaint. But, you know me don't take wrong way but you need to learn how to use an F7 button if it does spell checker.

Like you know about me, I have done some harrasment and grievance work, you just need to do one thing you need to learn to do and is stay calm.

LOL Luke

Offline AN68

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2009, 09:57:15 PM »
As well as writing to Stagecoach, I suggest that you write to the Unite office in Northampton, as they will certainly not condone the actions of this individual.

Offline TonyMaxwell

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2009, 10:20:12 PM »
I've taken a number of bus photographs in various locations round the UK.  So far, I haven't had any problems in bus stations or with any member of staff.  I have had the occasional 'finger' or 'shaken fist' from drivers but on the whole, drivers usually wave or do something silly - as per the attached photo taken in Edinburgh bus station.
I will point out that most of my photos are taken in Scotland and Scottish bus stations.  I've never yet been told I can't - but I suppose it's only a matter of time.  England seems to be a different matter - I've been approached and asked what I was doing, but never told I couldn't.
Cheers,

Tony

Offline Big Rob

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2009, 10:43:52 PM »
Quality stuff Teemax  ;D

Theres allways someone most willing to poopoo on your day, but as i was told a while ago (and its also a famous quote from TV) Never let the b****ads grind ya down, iv had a fair share of arguements with security and a driver down Kent, but i still carry on because i know im well within my rights to take photos on the high street.

Keep at it Jamie.

Adam Dowling

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2009, 10:50:59 PM »
I've taken a number of bus photographs in various locations round the UK.  So far, I haven't had any problems in bus stations or with any member of staff.  I have had the occasional 'finger' or 'shaken fist' from drivers but on the whole, drivers usually wave or do something silly - as per the attached photo taken in Edinburgh bus station.
I will point out that most of my photos are taken in Scotland and Scottish bus stations.  I've never yet been told I can't - but I suppose it's only a matter of time.  England seems to be a different matter - I've been approached and asked what I was doing, but never told I couldn't.

I personally don't have a problem with drivers waving or pulling faces, it shows that they don't have a problem with it. Well thats the way I view it anyway.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2009, 11:04:28 PM by Adam D »

Offline Craig

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2009, 11:02:01 PM »
I remember a case at Taunton station where some people were photographing a train and the driver jumped out the cab, told them not to take photos and said "how would you like it if I came to where you worked and took a photo of you?" Some people were told exactly the same at Bristol Temple Meads, possibly by the same driver. Could this attitude now be spreading across the transport industry?
« Last Edit: February 03, 2009, 11:03:43 PM by Craig »

Offline Mutly

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2009, 11:22:25 PM »
 Quite right Rob,
 
 Ive had it a couple of times, ranging from a female driver in Havant claiming i was spying on her (?) to a Polish Driver at Peterborough, calling me a Paedo (?).

 However i am suprised by the news that someone at Northampton has been bothering Photographers, as normally they are alright with Enthusiasts, indeed most are quite friendly, and i have never had a problem with any of them before. but i shall certainly be keeping an eye out for him,  

 Jamie if you get bothered by somebody again, just tell them your not actually taking photo's of buses, you're trying to get a decent shot of an Air partical six inches in front of your lens, and the bus is just in the background!  I said this to a security guard at Barnsley last year and he just shook his head and said "thats a new one" and walked away laughing.

 In the end they cant do anything because you aren't doing anything wrong, particually if you are out side a bus station on a public path.

  

Offline harz99

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2009, 11:43:32 PM »
No personal probelm for me if take photo's or not; but please do, for obvious safety reasons, make sure your flash is turned off...............

Offline Mutly

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2009, 11:54:39 PM »
 now that is a different story

 the ammount of people i have seen using a flash is unbelievable! not to mention just plain stupid

Offline Jamie V (AO02RBX)

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2009, 12:11:50 AM »
Hi All,
Well i do say one i never use my flash even in dark situations, i shall construct a email tommorrow i think not sure im sort of on the 50 50 border line over what to do....
anyway ta for all ya help lads

Offline barryb

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2009, 02:18:57 AM »
Draft a complaint e-mail, and leave it here for someone to take a look though before you send it :)

Offline jwy

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2009, 11:33:08 AM »
So far as taking photos on railway stations is concerned, The Association of Train Operating Companies (ATOC) publish guidelines on the National Rail Web Site

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/passenger_services/guidelines_for_rail_enthusiasts.html

Offline Suzy Scott

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2009, 11:39:36 AM »
Hi Jamie & all...

As I stepped in last time, guess I have to this time too. Send me all the details by PM (or email me@suzyscott.com) and I will be happy to write to those concerned...

Otherwise, can we tread carefully here?

Thanks,
Suzy

Offline Jamie V (AO02RBX)

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2009, 01:36:49 PM »
Hi Suzy and All,
What i shall do is email Suzy tonight with the details and that... Also in time i am sure between me and Suzy we can post on here any updates.
Jamie

Offline Big Bus

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2009, 08:53:52 PM »
Well today my bike was under repair in Northampton so i thought i would start getting some more buses pictures of Various Operators in Northampton. The day went past couple of drivers given the good old wave but no one gave any fingers.

As the day went past the snow started melting and in my o pion the ice must of defrosted off the union rep mouth at Stagecoach Northampton.

I was approached my security @ first and got told you cant take pictures in the bus station. I was like fair enough and i was about to get on with my day then the union rep for SIN spoke to me saying 'you cant take picture's of the buses because they are going into the driver personal space and that it is against to law.' He also there for went on how i should apparently ask driver's if can take pictures whilst they drive.

I nearly could of swing for him but i got on with my day but didn't carry on picture's to be quite honest this has disgusted me and i personally don't know if i shall carry on with taking picture's of buses, trains etc.......

I mean i said i got right's to take picture's. And also explained i know now that i am not allowed on the bus station with out permission first......

I mean honestly i want to know how do you ask the driver if you can take a picture of them if you are at the side of the road?!

Maybe someone could explain if there is somewhat correct or wrong with the above??


ta very much rant over




I never object to anyone who wants to take my photo when I am driving a bus, but I would like a copy!!
Anyway, which rep?

Offline Dennis Lloyd

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2009, 10:21:36 PM »
Jamie V

You are entitled to take photos in any public space but not necessarily in the Bus stations which are private property as I found out when taking photos in Bedford bus station some years ago, I was challenged and told that I should have asked permission from the "Manager".

I also had problems on Peterborough railway station as far back as 1978 when photographing Deltic diesel locos when a particularly obnoxious station official who stood about four feet tall ordered of the particular platform that I was standing on.

I took his name and went straight to the Station Manager's office and complained of harassment, he immediately sent for this idiot and told him in no uncertain terms that I was perfectly entitled to take photos, idiot looked even smaller when he left the office,

One thing I would say to you and please don't take this as criticism, if you write a letter to Stagecoach, spelling and composition are very important for your complaint to be taken seriously and you should take great care to ensure that these two points are looked at.

Dennis

Offline Suzy Scott

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2009, 01:14:14 PM »
I have taken up the matter, and sent a letter to the local authority (as owners of the bus station, re the security staff) and the bus operator.

I will post again once I hear anything.

In the meantime, this thread is Admins May Post/Locked.

Meant to add: Currently considering some sort of chit scheme for Forum members, so you have something in your hand to give out to those at times like this. Will keep thinking over this.

Offline Suzy Scott

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Re: taking Pictures of Stagecoach Northampton Buses
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2009, 07:12:46 PM »
I had a response from Stagecoach a week and a half ago, which seemed a bit unsure of what was required. I was waiting to see if I had a response from the council...

... and this morning, a woman called Marion called me from Northampton Borough Council. I asked her to email me the details (if truth be told, I didn't sleep so well the night before, and I was still in bed at 0830), so we now have an agreement. I have pasted her email in below. In her telephone call, she clarified that they would supply a hi-viz if one was required for use outside the concourse.

This does represent a substantial benefit for photographers, and I trust that this will be followed correctly.

--------
Further to our telephone conversation this morning regarding the taking of photographs at the bus station, I would confirm the following:
 
Any members of the public wishing to take photographs at the bus station should first contact Alan Craggs, Team Leader for the bus station, either by telephone on 01604 838407 or by e-mail acraggs@northampton.gov.uk.  They should advise when they wish to visit the site and for what purpose the photographs are to be used.  If permission is given, then we will contact the security staff to advise them.  You should then report to the security staff on arrival at the site.
 
Please note that although it is not necessary to wear high viz in the concourse, you will be required to wear high viz outside the concourse and arrangements will be made for security to escort you in the outer areas of the site for health and safety reasons. 
 
We have today spoken to Stagecoach to confirm the above with them and they will pass on to their drivers.
 
If we can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.
 
 
Marion Watson
Administrator
Town Centre Operations